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BGonline.org Forums
Trading freedom for security (very OT)
Posted By: Achim In Response To: Trading freedom for security (very OT) (Steve Mellen)
Date: Monday, 6 August 2007, at 11:29 p.m.
Hi Steve,
what are the policies of your own government as far as eavesdropping on calls and gathering intelligence?
We had a big discussion here in Germany years ago concerning eavesdropping (search for "der Große Lauschangriff", 1998). What happened here was that the former parliament adopted the law initiated by our government - under heavily protest of parts of the citizens, parts of the politicians and the former Federal Attorney of Law.
After a constitutional complaint this law was massively eased. And ... in both versions (the old and the new one) an authorization by judge was/is necessary before any eavesdropping starts!
And how do you know your country is "better" than the US in this regard?
I don't know, and I'd never talk in terms like "better" or "worse" comparing two countries regarding human or constitutional rights. These rights are either respected or not.
Today we have discussions concerning "online searchings", "data protection or mining" and certain restricive laws initiated by our Secretary of the Interior, Wolfgang Schäuble (he probably would fit into Bush's team). Very bad and scary. And I admit, that human rights in Germany are also not treated in a way I like (see G8 in Heiligendamm a few weeks ago). I see the same mechanism here and in the U.S.A. Provide a target (terrorists), scare people (you always reach more when scaring people instead of seeking confidence), collect data wherever and whenever you can, tell everybody that people who don't follow your advices are guilty if thing go bad. Though, if you compare the "world series" (U.S.A.) with the actual German government ... our team probably plays in 3rd or 4th division ;-).
There are a few differences if you really want to oppose the U.S.A (of today) and Germany:
I think that journalist and some serious media here have more positive influence, we sometimes call them "the fourth power". From what I see some US media are just finding their way back to independent reporting, but a lot of them heavily influence the people in a bad manner. Just compare how BBC, a French or German news channel report about Irak with reports of some US channels (e.g. FOX) Our judges are really independent and educate our politicians here and there. Just in the past few years they really slapped our legislature in some cases. In Germany there is more than two big political parties, so they need to come to arrangements. When we talk about eavesdropping or online searchings we talk about less than 10 cases in 5 years! Our police (hopefully) never arrests people under inhuman conditions, without letting them consult a lawyer or not accusing them in a decent amount of time. Well, we have a very bad history in that. We would never search for a different term for "French fries." ;-). It is as I said in my first e-mail. I don't want to bash, I'm shivering when I see how some of your executive politicians behave, starting with illegal manipulation of elections, waging a war of aggression without UN resolution (I talk about the 2nd Irak war), manipulating history while heavily influencing the media (how does it come that still 50% of your citizens believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11?), changing laws to their advantage, ignoring international contracts, trying to control everyone and everything...
I already mentioned Al Gore's new book. To be honest, though I don't trust him all-over, I was shocked by the mode a former Vice President is talking about his own country. And this book is published worldwide, we don't talk about a "channel 37 interview" with maybe 50,000 spectators. So he probably knew what "mischief" he did when writing "Assault on reason."
Ciao
Achim
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