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PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)

Posted By: Matt Cohn-Geier
Date: Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 10:09 p.m.

In Response To: PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative) (Matt Cohn-Geier)

1 - is already long established and in fact considerably weaker than the conclusion that others have come to or attempted to prove - that the luckier player ALWAYS wins. This is due to how "luck" and "luck factor" is defined. In any case, if a player is less than a 100% favorite before a match starts and then wins the match (hence performing better than expectation), then of course he got lucky to win.

2-4 - this was not a study, I just did the calculations. It is in fact possible to calculate this because PR is by definition a measure of how many errors you made, in other words how much % chance of winning you give up, or in other words, how big of a favorite you are, and hence what the mean is. Basically very similar to Rick's post about ELO. If you know what the odds are that you will win a match then you can also calculate the variance, standard deviation, confidence intervals, etc.

Of course there are some problems with trying to apply this practically. For instance, maybe the 6.3 player can make adjustments and not lose as often as expected against the 3.7 player. On the other hand, maybe the 3.7 player can make adjustments and win MORE often than expected against the 6.3 player. Anyway, it is definitely a more accurate measure of skill to say "player A who wins 58% against player B" than to start involving imperfect third party judges like XG, start doing data collection, etc. So calculating the mean and std dev is much less prone to error and bias than trying to accumulate data and run simulations on it. For example, you are not hindered by sample size.

You could do similar calculations involving a 10+ player. I am pretty sure a 3.7 player would be a huge favorite there.

Messages In This Thread

• PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
  __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 4:04 a.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Bob Koca -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 4:21 a.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 4:29 a.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Casper Van der Tak -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 2:03 p.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 2:47 p.m.
          • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
            Colin Owen -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 3:01 p.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 4:37 p.m.
              • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                Bob Koca -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 8:10 p.m.
                • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                  __1ERROR1__ -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 12:52 a.m.
                  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                    Schigolch -- Tuesday, 23 February 2016, at 11:27 p.m.
          • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
            Casper Van der Tak -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 5:17 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Bob Koca -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 4:43 a.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 5:27 a.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Bob Koca -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 5:57 a.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 6:27 a.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        vidvis -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 7:43 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Jason Lee -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 1:35 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 2:43 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Matt Cohn-Geier -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 2:12 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 4:13 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Rick Janowski -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 8:36 p.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        __1ERROR1__ -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 12:49 a.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          Rick Janowski -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 10:06 a.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Matt Cohn-Geier -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 10:09 p.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Bob Koca -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 10:35 p.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          Matt Cohn-Geier -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 11:22 p.m.
          • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
            David Rockwell -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 11:58 p.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              Rick Janowski -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 12:28 a.m.
              • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                Matt Cohn-Geier -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 1:32 a.m.
                • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                  christian munk-christensen -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 7:27 a.m.
                  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                    Matt Cohn-Geier -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 7:53 a.m.
                  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                    Rick Janowski -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 9:22 a.m.
              • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                Rick Janowski -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 1:42 a.m.
              • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                Bob Koca -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 9:27 p.m.
                • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                  Stick -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 10:03 p.m.
                  • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                    Casper Van der Tak -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 11:40 p.m.
                  • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                    Colin Owen -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 12:00 a.m.
                    • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                      Bob Koca -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 1:34 a.m.
                  • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                    Rick Janowski -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 12:07 a.m.
                • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                  Rick Janowski -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 10:41 p.m.
                  • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                    Tom Keith -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 1:25 a.m.
                    • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                      Casper Van der Tak -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 8:39 a.m.
                      • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                        Colin Owen -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 12:40 p.m.
                        • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                          Casper Van der Tak -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 4:13 p.m.
                  • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                    Bob Koca -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 1:31 a.m.
                  • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                    Chris Yep -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 5:46 a.m.
                    • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                      Rick Janowski -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 11:42 a.m.
                      • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                        Chris Yep -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 1:17 p.m.
                      • PR or Luck? (Time management)
                        Bob Koca -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 5:15 p.m.
                    • PR or Luck? (Time management) Graphical Representation
                      Rick Janowski -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 5:01 p.m.
                    • PR or Luck? (Time management)/Other sports
                      Bob Koca -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 5:20 p.m.
                      • PR or Luck? (Time management)/Other sports
                        Colin Owen -- Sunday, 14 February 2016, at 4:42 p.m.
                        • PR or Luck? (Time management)/Other sports
                          Colin Owen -- Sunday, 14 February 2016, at 4:44 p.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              __1ERROR1__ -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 1:19 a.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              johnk -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 6:46 p.m.
              • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                Maik Stiebler -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 6:55 p.m.
                • Thanks *NM*
                  johnk -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 8:51 p.m.
          • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
            Rick Janowski -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 12:11 a.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        __1ERROR1__ -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 1:07 a.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          Matt Cohn-Geier -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 4:18 a.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          Matt Cohn-Geier -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 4:34 a.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Casper Van der Tak -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 2:21 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      __1ERROR1__ -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 4:23 p.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Casper Van der Tak -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 5:14 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Igor -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 5:30 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Chris Yep -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 6:00 a.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    vidvis -- Wednesday, 10 February 2016, at 8:05 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      __1ERROR1__ -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 4:15 a.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Timothy Chow -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 1:38 a.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      __1ERROR1__ -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 4:28 a.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Timothy Chow -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 12:21 a.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Albert Steg -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 5:56 p.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Timothy Chow -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 12:44 a.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    sita -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 9:03 a.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    christian munk-christensen -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 12:46 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Rick Janowski -- Thursday, 11 February 2016, at 2:49 p.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Timothy Chow -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 12:24 a.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          Rick Janowski -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 2:04 a.m.
          • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
            Timothy Chow -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 12:41 a.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              Rick Janowski -- Saturday, 13 February 2016, at 1:51 a.m.
      • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
        Florin Popa -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 12:08 p.m.
        • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
          Leonardo Jerkovic -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 12:24 p.m.
          • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
            Matt Cohn-Geier -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 12:33 p.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              Colin Owen -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 3:20 p.m.
              • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                Florin Popa -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 3:53 p.m.
                • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                  Colin Owen -- Tuesday, 23 February 2016, at 12:54 a.m.
                  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                    Florin Popa -- Tuesday, 23 February 2016, at 1:08 a.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              Florin Popa -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 3:32 p.m.
            • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
              Rick Janowski -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 3:45 p.m.
              • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
                Florin Popa -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 4:04 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Sean Garber -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 7:57 a.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Bob Koca -- Friday, 12 February 2016, at 9:01 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Schigolch -- Thursday, 18 February 2016, at 11:24 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    niuniuch -- Friday, 19 February 2016, at 12:58 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Sean Garber -- Friday, 19 February 2016, at 10:29 p.m.
    • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
      Casper Van der Tak -- Friday, 19 February 2016, at 10:43 p.m.
  • PR or Luck? Here is the real answer if you are looking for (Long but informative)
    Florin Popa -- Monday, 22 February 2016, at 3:42 p.m.