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A few questions about eXtreme

Posted By: Matt Cohn-Geier
Date: Thursday, 17 September 2009, at 4:28 a.m.

  • Is XG's NN stronger than GNU's (or Snowie's)? I am not sure. It seems strong but maybe it is stronger or maybe it is weaker. Long head-to-head money sessions would be the best way of testing this by far IMHO. And, though no one seems to know how to do this, it really doesn't seem like it should be the kind of thing that is that difficult to do. Failing head-to-head money games we can use Michael Depreli's tests of how the evals compare with the rollouts where they disagree.


  • What kind of speed increase is one really getting with XG? Everyone seems to agree that it is faster than GNU, which is good. Some claims were very much faster, however, by my estimates I was only seeing about a 10-50% increase in speed for rollouts. I would need to do more testing to figure out what kind of speed increase I was actually getting.


  • Can GNU implement a feature similar to XGR? I don't see why not. It'd take a little development but it's really a simple concept. Is GNU fast enough to run it in real time? Maybe. GNU 4-ply is a lot slower than XGR but Neil has indicated that a GNU truncated RO is faster than 4-ply. I think GNU 3-ply is about the normal amount of time that one can expect to wait for analysis. Rollouts with GNU 3-ply take quite a long time but are certainly doable.


  • What about the MET? Both are based on 0-ply rollouts, I guess, but XG's match cubes are often different from GNU/g11's. The METs are very similar except at GG/GS and related scores, where XG's MET has the leader with better equity than g11. This is a little distressing because the trend has always been that as bots get stronger the leader's equity has been going down.


  • What about rollouts? XG's rollouts of opening moves often disagree with GNU (and also often with Snowie). Which rollouts do we believe? How can we compare ROs to determine which one is better? Presumably all we can do is compare the plies at which the ROs operate and then hope that it carries through in the RO. That would go back to the first question of which NN is stronger.


  • Will I recommend XG? Sure, it's a strong bot. Is it better than GNU? I have no idea.

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