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Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)

Posted By: Michael Petch
Date: Monday, 12 September 2011, at 6:50 p.m.

In Response To: Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!) (Phil Simborg)

You set XG2 to play itself in a match. Before the first roll the bot has a 50/50 chance to beat itself. How is that different from a coin toss?

Two equally skilled players sit and play a match. What are the chances before the first roll? And how is that different from a coin toss?

By your definition in this thread - A coin toss is luck. My question is in a 50/50 situation in Backgammon why would it not be luck?

Messages In This Thread

• Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
  Phil Simborg -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 2:55 p.m.
  • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
    Daniel Murphy -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 3:46 p.m.
    • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
      Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 11:09 p.m.
  • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
    Stick -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 4:14 p.m.
    • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
      Phil Simborg -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 5:10 p.m.
      • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
        sonrik -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 11:23 p.m.
    • What is the "legal moves rule" and why is it controversial?
      leobueno -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 5:19 p.m.
  • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
    sonrik -- Saturday, 10 September 2011, at 11:41 p.m.
  • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
    Stick -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 1:55 a.m.
    • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
      Phil Simborg -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:08 a.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
        Stick -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:22 a.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
          Phil Simborg -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 3:04 a.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
        Daniel Murphy -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:30 a.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
        eXtreme Gammon -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:40 a.m.
        • +1 *NM*
          Michael Petch -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:44 a.m.
      • ROFLMAO !!
        neilkaz -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 4:40 a.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
        GeorgeMJ23 -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 10:11 a.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
          Phil Simborg -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 1:01 p.m.
          • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
            GeorgeMJ23 -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:13 p.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
          Jakob Garal -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 11:33 p.m.
          • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
            Jason Lee -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 12:25 a.m.
            • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
              Casper van der Tak -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 10:10 a.m.
              • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
                Jakob Garal -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 11:11 a.m.
                • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
                  Casper van der Tak -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 12:44 p.m.
                • Clarification
                  Tom Keith -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 1:01 p.m.
                  • Clarification
                    Daniel Murphy -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 3:02 p.m.
                  • Clarification
                    Jakob Garal -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 4:26 p.m.
                    • Clarification
                      Stick -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 5:07 p.m.
                      • Clarification
                        Casper van der Tak -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 5:19 p.m.
                        • Clarification
                          Stick -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 5:31 p.m.
                          • Clarification
                            Casper van der Tak -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 5:37 p.m.
                        • Clarification
                          Timothy Chow -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 6:39 p.m.
                      • Clarification
                        Jakob Garal -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 11:57 p.m.
            • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
              Jakob Garal -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 11:08 a.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
        Jason Lee -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 12:09 p.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
          Phil Simborg -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 12:54 p.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
        Frank Berger -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 3:21 p.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
          Phil Simborg -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 4:12 p.m.
          • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
            Frank Berger -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 6:11 p.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
        Steve Mellen -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 7:51 p.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
          Michael Petch -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 8:51 p.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN BACKGAMMON!!!!!!!!
          Phil Simborg -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 4:09 p.m.
      • THERE IS NO LUCK IN ROULETTE!!!!!!!!
        Fender -- Wednesday, 14 September 2011, at 2:36 p.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN ROULETTE!!!!!!!!
          Leonardo Jerkovic -- Sunday, 18 September 2011, at 5:37 p.m.
          • THERE IS NO LUCK IN ROULETTE!!!!!!!!
            Timothy Chow -- Sunday, 18 September 2011, at 6:47 p.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN ROULETTE!!!!!!!!
          Bob Koca -- Monday, 19 September 2011, at 2:14 a.m.
        • THERE IS NO LUCK IN ROULETTE!!!!!!!!
          Chuck Bower -- Wednesday, 21 September 2011, at 11:52 p.m.
          • THERE IS NO LUCK IN ROULETTE!!!!!!!!
            Daniel Murphy -- Thursday, 22 September 2011, at 1:25 a.m.
            • THERE IS NO LUCK IN ROLLOUT
              Bob Koca -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 2:11 a.m.
          • True..just far too much house edge !!
            neilkaz -- Thursday, 22 September 2011, at 3:18 a.m.
            • True..just far too much house edge !!
              Jake Jacobs -- Thursday, 22 September 2011, at 5:08 a.m.
              • True..just far too much house edge !!
                Bob Glass -- Thursday, 22 September 2011, at 9:06 p.m.
    • Luck does not exist
      Casper van der Tak -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 6:37 a.m.
      • Luck does not exist
        higonefive -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 10:10 a.m.
        • Luck does not exist
          Stick -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 10:35 a.m.
          • Luck does not exist
            higonefive -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 7:08 p.m.
        • Luck does not exist
          Casper van der Tak -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 11:11 a.m.
      • Luck does not exist
        GeorgeMJ23 -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:22 p.m.
        • Luck does not exist
          Casper van der Tak -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 4:41 p.m.
    • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
      Chuck Bower -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 7:10 p.m.
      • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
        Casper van der Tak -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 7:57 p.m.
    • So we're in the deceptive campaign '12 season already?
      Chuck Bower -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 11:22 p.m.
      • So we're in the deceptive campaign '12 season already?
        Stick -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 11:38 p.m.
        • So we're in the deceptive campaign '12 season already?
          Chuck Bower -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 12:23 a.m.
    • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
      Turz -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 9:52 a.m.
  • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
    Phil Simborg -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 1:53 p.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      Casper van der Tak -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 2:10 p.m.
      • Very nice *NM*
        Tom Keith -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 3:43 p.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      axsx -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 3:36 p.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      Frank Berger -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 3:39 p.m.
      • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
        Bob Koca -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 8:30 p.m.
      • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
        Gregg Cattanach -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 7:32 p.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      Stick -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 6:41 p.m.
      • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
        Phil Simborg -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 12:43 a.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      Joe Russell -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 8:36 p.m.
      • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
        Phil Simborg -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 12:41 a.m.
        • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
          Daniel Murphy -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 1:03 a.m.
          • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
            Phil Simborg -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 1:32 p.m.
            • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
              Daniel Murphy -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 4:19 p.m.
              • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                Phil Simborg -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 6:36 p.m.
                • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                  Michael Petch -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 6:50 p.m.
                  • +++1. *NM*
                    higonefive -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 7:08 p.m.
                  • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                    Casper van der Tak -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 8:38 p.m.
                    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                      Michael Petch -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 8:53 p.m.
                      • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                        Casper van der Tak -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 9:57 p.m.
                        • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                          Michael Petch -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 10:26 p.m.
                          • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                            Michael Petch -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 10:39 p.m.
                • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                  Timothy Chow -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 10:28 p.m.
                • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
                  Daniel Murphy -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 10:40 p.m.
      • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
        Jakob Garal -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 12:11 a.m.
        • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
          Jason Lee -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 2:02 a.m.
        • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
          Joe Russell -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 7:50 a.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      Bob Koca -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 8:40 p.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      Timothy Chow -- Sunday, 11 September 2011, at 9:16 p.m.
    • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
      Joe Russell -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 12:00 a.m.
      • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
        Daniel Murphy -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 12:19 a.m.
        • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
          Phil Simborg -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 11:54 p.m.
          • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
            Daniel Murphy -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 12:17 a.m.
          • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
            Michael Petch -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 12:36 a.m.
            • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
              Michael Petch -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 12:38 a.m.
          • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
            mamabear -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 1:08 a.m.
          • Refute this argument, please (I know someone will!)
            Joe Russell -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 7:38 a.m.
    • CORRECT and FAIR DEMONSTRATION
      Jakob Garal -- Thursday, 22 September 2011, at 11:25 p.m.
      • no shouting, please
        Sam Pottle -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 12:03 a.m.
        • no shouting, please
          Jakob Garal -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 8:11 a.m.
          • no shouting, please
            Steve Mellen -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 3:20 p.m.
            • no shouting, please
              Jakob Garal -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 10:24 p.m.
              • no shouting, please
                Daniel Murphy -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 10:43 p.m.
                • no shouting, please
                  Jakob Garal -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 11:46 p.m.
                  • no shouting, please
                    Daniel Murphy -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 12:43 a.m.
                    • no shouting, please
                      Casper van der Tak -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 2:49 a.m.
                      • Explanation
                        Jakob Garal -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 8:10 p.m.
                        • Explanation
                          Casper van der Tak -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 9:18 p.m.
                          • Explanation
                            Jakob Garal -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 9:54 p.m.
                    • Represantative result
                      Jakob Garal -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 8:02 p.m.
              • no shouting, please
                Steve Mellen -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 11:06 p.m.
                • Correct estimation!
                  Jakob Garal -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 11:37 p.m.
                  • Correct estimation!
                    Steve Mellen -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 3:06 a.m.
                    • Correct estimation!
                      Jakob Garal -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 10:18 p.m.
                  • Correct estimation!
                    Daniel Murphy -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 4:58 a.m.
                    • Correct estimation!
                      Jakob Garal -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 7:38 p.m.
                • no shouting, please
                  Jason Lee -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 11:55 p.m.
                • Parallel Backgammon is Bulgarian invention
                  svilo -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 3:00 a.m.
                  • Parallel Backgammon is Bulgarian invention
                    Steve Mellen -- Saturday, 24 September 2011, at 3:32 a.m.
                    • You are correct in priciple
                      svilo -- Monday, 26 September 2011, at 2:13 p.m.
      • CORRECT and FAIR DEMONSTRATION
        Bob Koca -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 2:05 a.m.
        • CORRECT and FAIR DEMONSTRATION
          Jakob Garal -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 8:09 a.m.
          • CORRECT and FAIR DEMONSTRATION
            Bob Koca -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 3:54 p.m.
            • CORRECT and FAIR DEMONSTRATION
              Jakob Garal -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 10:31 p.m.
              • CORRECT and FAIR DEMONSTRATION
                Bob Koca -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 10:43 p.m.
                • CORRECT and FAIR DEMONSTRATION
                  Jakob Garal -- Friday, 23 September 2011, at 11:52 p.m.
  • Tobias Hellwag--International BG Personality--Interview
    higonefive -- Monday, 12 September 2011, at 7:21 p.m.
    • Trading vs BG, heading off toward OT land
      mamabear -- Tuesday, 13 September 2011, at 1:32 a.m.