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BGonline.org Forums
Deep Snake Cube - Revisited
Posted By: Frank Berger
Date: Friday, 26 June 2026, at 1:18 p.m.
Deep_snake_cube_en >Deep Snake Cube - Revisited
You may remember the position that Bob Koca originally posted ( https://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=219822> )
I’m always happy to see a position like this from a real match, because BGBlitz has a clear advantage in these types of positions.
But how do you demonstrate something like this? A rollout doesn’t provide a definitive answer if Bot finds Move_1 to be better and Bot B finds Move_2 to be better. I know of only two possibilities:
You can identify it through logic. The problem, however, is that one person might see it one way, while another might see it completely differently. A consensus among several grandmasters is helpful here (though they aren’t always available).
If one side has practically no decisions to make, a rollout reveals the differences.
I had therefore created a rollout, but Bob Koca rightly pointed out that errors can be made with the cube. To rule that out, we’ll turn it into a DMP position so that one side is trivial to play.
XGID=----a--BBBBB---AA--A-cdgB-:0:0:1:00:6:6:0:7:10
Stick’s rollouts (https://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=219867>) couldn’t be used for this reason, so I rolled it out with XG using the commonly used settings: 3-ply/XG+/normal:
White is Player 2
score: 0
pip: 591 point match pip: 188
score: 0
Blue is Player 1XGID=----a--BBBBB---AA--A-cdgB-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:1:10 Blue on roll, cube action?
Analyzed in Rollout No double Double/Take Player Winning Chances: 64,38% (G:4,48% B:0,12%) 64,38% (G:4,48% B:0,12%) Opponent Winning Chances: 35,62% (G:26,82% B:8,48%) 35,62% (G:26,82% B:8,48%) Cubeless Equities +0,288 +0,288 Cubeful Equities No double: +0,288 (0,000) ±0,025 (+0,263..+0,313) Double/Take: +0,288 ±0,025 (+0,263..+0,313) Double/Pass: +1,000 (+0,712) Best Cube action: Double / Take Rollout details 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 59890281
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG RollerDouble Decision confidence: 50,0% Take Decision confidence: 100,0% Duration: 1 minute 24 seconds eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10, MET: Kazaross XG2
Larger filters typically help with these types of positions, and I also set XG to its strongest possible level: XG++/XG++/Gigantic. That’s why the rollout took 23 hours instead of 84 seconds and yielded:
White is Player 2
score: 0
pip: 591 point match pip: 188
score: 0
Blue is Player 1XGID=----a--BBBBB---AA--A-cdgB-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:1:10 Blue on roll, cube action?
Analyzed in Rollout No double Double/Take Player Winning Chances: 74,30% (G:4,64% B:0,13%) 74,30% (G:4,63% B:0,13%) Opponent Winning Chances: 25,70% (G:17,86% B:5,31%) 25,70% (G:17,85% B:5,29%) Cubeless Equities +0,486 +0,486 Cubeful Equities No double: +0,486 ±0,013 (+0,473..+0,499) Double/Take: +0,486 (0,000) ±0,013 (+0,473..+0,499) Double/Pass: +1,000 (+0,514) Best Cube action: No double / Take Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 0,0% Rollout details 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 59890281
Moves and cube decisions: XG Roller++
Search interval: GiganticDouble Decision confidence: 50,2% Take Decision confidence: 100,0% Duration: 23 hours 01 minute eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10, MET: Kazaross XG2
That’s a whopping 10% increase in winning chances, meaning the commonly used setting is way off the mark here. Let’s see what BGBlitz has to say about this....
By mistake, I had started BGBlitz with a 1-ply rollout, and BGBlitz already reaches nearly 74% with that, taking 34 seconds instead of 23 hours..... .
The 3-ply rollout comes in at
Since I thought 4-ply would certainly be useful for this difficult position, I specifically added 4-ply to BGBlitz. That results in:
so there’s no significant change compared to 3-ply.
Summary:
BGBlitz 1-ply plays this position almost as well as XG with XG++/Gigantic
BGBlitz 4-ply wins 10% more games than XG at the strongest possible setting
At the same level (3-ply), BGBlitz wins 20% more games.
If you’re skeptical, just play from this position using XG and BGBlitz in their free versions, and the difference will become clear.
You can find the data here: https://www.bgblitz.com/download/Doc/Deep_snake_cube.zip
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