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BGonline.org Forums
How can we know which bot is best? - updated backgame engine
Posted By: MK In Response To: updated backgame engine (AP)
Date: Thursday, 10 September 2026, at 11:03 a.m.
In the first parapgraph in the page at that link says:
"Because XG exposes no programmatic interface, we score it through its Batch Analysis feature."
This has been the common excuse for all new bots since XG worshipping has began.
1 - Trying to compare bots that masturbate themselves separately is moronic! It accomplishes nothing meaningful. The only thing that really matters is which bots wins more against which other bot and that can only be determined through "one bot vs another bot" head-to-head actual intercourse.
2 - Tony Lezard's "Dueller" had made possible "bot vs bot" plays between Jellyfish, Snowie, GnuBG and BGBlitz. But there was never any meaningful efforts made to compare those bots in terms of actual results. It's hard to believe that nobody wanted to find out...
3 - Because of XG's non-cooperative stance, other bots couldn't be made to play against it even using tools like Dueller. (The last we heard from Tony Lezard a few months ago was that he was working on adding XG to his Dueller.)
4 - All bots other than the long abandoned and obsolete XG could adopt a common protocol to play against GnuBG, which is at least as good as XG if not bettter, or against one another to see which one is best but none of them have been willing to do that yet either.
5 - GnuBG and BGBlitz implemented a common protocol long years ago to enable making them play against each other without needing a tool like Dueller. Neither bot made any effort to compare the two. Perhaps the freeware GnuBG had no incentive to do so but it's curious why BGBlitz hasn't done it. Since it brags about even winning a meaningless computer olympiad against GnuBG, it surely would use it to sell itself as better than GnuBG if it were so. We all know that it's because the paid BGBlitz is nowhere near being as good as the free GnuBG.
6 - Why doesn't Sage implement the open protocol and compare itself to GnuBG and/or BGBlitz by playing a significant number of games head-to-head?
7 - Why doesn't HedgeHog implement the open protocol and compare itself to GnuBG and/or BGBlitz by playing a significant number of games head-to-head?
8 - Jellyfish and Snowie are long gone. If commercial bots, (other than the abandoned and obsolete XG), like BGBlitz, Sage, HedgeHog, etc. compared themselves to one another in head-to-head sessions, it still wouldn't mean all that much because all those bots are "incestuous siblings" sired by the human-biased, wannabe-AI TD-Gammon v2.
9 - However, unlike all other bots, HedgeHog claims to be trainded through "cubeful self-play". If that is true, results of head-to-head sessions between it and the other bots would be a lot more meaningful.
10 - Not to be rude or insulting but to paint an image that may stick in your minds, you all look to me as daily porn addicts satisfied with watching mostly XG but occasionally also other bots masturbate doing rollouts... Wouldn't it be more enjoyable even for you all to watch those bots have intercourses, or even have an orgy..? I'll be first to confess that I surely would enjoy watching it... ;)
MK
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