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Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?

Posted By: Tom Keith
Date: Friday, 11 September 2009, at 6:33 p.m.

In Response To: Clocks + Random Dice Generator ? (Chuck Bower)

I prefer an open system like the one MaX describes. With an open system, you (or any of your smart math friends) can verify that machine works as described. It would presumably use a well-known, well-analyzed (by experts in the field) RNG.

You could play around with it and verify that changing either seed, even slightly, produces a completely different set of rolls. And that there is (almost*) no way to determine from one seed alone what the squence of rolls will be. You can verify that the only thing that alters the sequence of the rolls is the choice of the two seeds.

On the other hand, with a sealed box, you have to trust the manufacturer to be both honest and competent. You have to trust that the device hasn't been tampered with since it left the factory. You have to hope that the device you are using isn't a counterfeit.

---------------

* There is still a potential for cheating with MaX's system. If the seeds are too small, the number of possible dice sequences is limited. Suppose each person entered a 4-digit PIN. If you know one PIN, then there are only 10,000 possibilities for the other pin and 10,000 possible dice sequences the machine can generate. If you have a friend entering those dice rolls into a computer as they are revealed, the friend's computer could compare all 10,000 PINS against the actual sequence of rolls and, after a half dozen rolls or so, narrow down unknown PIN and therefore the sequence of upcoming rolls.

Messages In This Thread

• Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
  MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 10:52 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Joe Russell -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 12:30 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Gregg Cattanach -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:36 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        misja -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:49 p.m.
        • proper link
          misja -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:57 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:49 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        Phil Simborg -- Sunday, 13 September 2009, at 9:31 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:40 p.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 1:15 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:48 p.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Bob Koca -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 3:41 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 4:29 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 8:44 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Chuck Bower -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 5:29 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 6:33 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        Chuck Bower -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 9:55 p.m.
        • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
          Bob Koca -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 10:05 p.m.
          • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
            Rich Munitz -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 11:03 p.m.
        • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
          Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 10:32 p.m.
          • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
            Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 12:31 a.m.
            • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
              Tom Keith -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 1:35 a.m.
            • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
              Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 4:42 p.m.
            • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
              MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 9:32 a.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 9:29 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Jason Lee -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 6:45 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Sam Pottle -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 10:14 a.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 8:56 a.m.
  • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
    Rich Munitz -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 11:00 p.m.
    • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
      Bob Koca -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 11:33 p.m.
    • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
      Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 4:46 p.m.
      • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
        Bob Koca -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 5:36 p.m.
      • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
        Rich Munitz -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 5:55 p.m.
        • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
          Bob Koca -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 6:01 p.m.
          • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
            Rich Munitz -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 6:18 p.m.
    • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
      MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 10:31 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Phil Simborg -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 3:57 a.m.