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Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?

Posted By: MaX
Date: Monday, 14 September 2009, at 9:29 a.m.

In Response To: Clocks + Random Dice Generator ? (Tom Keith)

Tom wrote: * There is still a potential for cheating with MaX's system. If the seeds are too small, the number of possible dice sequences is limited. Suppose each person entered a 4-digit PIN. If you know one PIN, then there are only 10,000 possibilities for the other pin and 10,000 possible dice sequences the machine can generate. If you have a friend entering those dice rolls into a computer as they are revealed, the friend's computer could compare all 10,000 PINS against the actual sequence of rolls and, after a half dozen rolls or so, narrow down unknown PIN and therefore the sequence of upcoming rolls.

Yeah, this could be a problem: the fact that if genration can be done quickly, then you could try a search approach (i.e. generating all/some sequences and trying to match the current one). Without talking about smarter ways of doing the same.

An expert in the field would be of help here, but I think that if the state space of the generator is large enough compared to the length of the "visible" sequence, the search approach would be difficult. In BG luckily we don't need that many rolls and, in case, we could restart the generator (e.g. after every game).

MaX.

P.S. Wikipedia states that Mersenne Twister is not suitable since in its most common implementation, you just need to observe 624 iterates to be able to predict the future ones (and that not knowing anything about the initial seed, if you partially know it,that could be worse). However, other generators suffers much less from this problem.

Messages In This Thread

• Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
  MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 10:52 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Joe Russell -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 12:30 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Gregg Cattanach -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:36 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        misja -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:49 p.m.
        • proper link
          misja -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:57 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:49 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        Phil Simborg -- Sunday, 13 September 2009, at 9:31 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:40 p.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 1:15 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 2:48 p.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Bob Koca -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 3:41 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 4:29 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 8:44 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Chuck Bower -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 5:29 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 6:33 p.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        Chuck Bower -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 9:55 p.m.
        • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
          Bob Koca -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 10:05 p.m.
          • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
            Rich Munitz -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 11:03 p.m.
        • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
          Tom Keith -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 10:32 p.m.
          • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
            Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 12:31 a.m.
            • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
              Tom Keith -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 1:35 a.m.
            • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
              Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 4:42 p.m.
            • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
              MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 9:32 a.m.
      • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
        MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 9:29 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Jason Lee -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 6:45 p.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      Sam Pottle -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 10:14 a.m.
    • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
      MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 8:56 a.m.
  • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
    Rich Munitz -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 11:00 p.m.
    • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
      Bob Koca -- Friday, 11 September 2009, at 11:33 p.m.
    • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
      Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 4:46 p.m.
      • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
        Bob Koca -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 5:36 p.m.
      • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
        Rich Munitz -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 5:55 p.m.
        • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
          Bob Koca -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 6:01 p.m.
          • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
            Rich Munitz -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 6:18 p.m.
    • Would this method TOLERATE dice cheaters without eliminating dice?
      MaX -- Monday, 14 September 2009, at 10:31 a.m.
  • Clocks + Random Dice Generator ?
    Phil Simborg -- Saturday, 12 September 2009, at 3:57 a.m.