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Lets see if the bots can help us to understand further

Posted By: neilkaz
Date: Sunday, 27 June 2010, at 7:56 p.m.

In Response To: Skill Difference (Timothy Chow)

First off all, an XG 4 ply RO of the situation assuming equal skill. I used 4 ply since 4 ply's eval was closer to the actual truth here than 3 ply so I suspect 4 ply cube will make fewer errors later (ie a bad take after clearling). We see that vs equal skill the cube is clear but with 22% chance to win and that lovely 1%+ luckbox G chance, the take is also clear.




is Player 2

score: 5
pip: 108
7 point match
pip: 129
score: 0

is Player 1
XGID=---AABE-B---bB-b-bbdBa-b--:0:0:-1:00:0:5:0:7:10
on roll, cube action?


Analyzed in Rollout
No Double
Player Winning Chances: 77.53% (G: 3.96% B: 0.13%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 22.47% (G: 1.47% B: 0.05%)
Double/Take
Player Winning Chances: 77.97% (G: 5.22% B: 0.07%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 22.03% (G: 1.28% B: 0.05%)
Cubeless Equities
No Double:+0.573
Double:+1.634
Cubeful Equities
No Double:+0.826 (-0.130)
Double/Take:+0.957
Double/Drop:+1.000 (+0.043)
Best Cube action: Double / Take
Rollout details
2154 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 87427665
Moves and cube decisions: 4 ply
Confidence No Double: ± 0.008 (+0.818...+0.834)
Confidence Double: ± 0.011 (+0.946...+0.968)
Double Decision confidence: 100.0%
Take Decision confidence: 100.0%
Duration: 1 hour 10 minutes

eXtreme Gammon Version: 1.14, MET: Rockwell-Kazaross

Now to get a handle on the skill factor I used GNU with the J/T+100 Elo MET.

Since GNU 3 ply cube does a much better job of evaluating the cube here than does 2 ply, I used 3 ply cube for the RO, trying to minimize later cube errors.

As we see this decision now seems close. I still think that with a 100 Elo difference it may have been best for Petko to wait for an improvement and then cube.

The score (after 0 games) is: gnubg 5, Neil 0 (match to 7 points)

Move number 3: gnubg on roll, cube decision?

gnubg108


 '2X '1X2O4X2X2X '2X '2O

 ' '1O1O2O5O '2O ' ' '2X

Neil129

Position ID: 1D6DAQMmbzMGAA Match ID: MAHgAFAAAAAA

• gnubg doubles

Alert: wrong double ( -0.0114)!

Cube decision
Rollout cubeless equity +0.5675(Money: +0.5613)
Cubeful equities:
1.No double +0.7746
2.Double, pass +1.0000 +0.2254
3.Double, take +0.7632 -0.0114
Proper cube action:No double, take (4.8%)
Rollout details
WinW gW bg LoseL gL bgCubelessCubeful
Centered 1-cube0.77160.03160.0006-0.22840.01400.0002 +0.5675 +0.7746
Standard error0.00060.00170.0003-0.00060.00050.0000 0.0020 0.0039
Player Neil owns 2-cube0.78070.09870.0010-0.21930.01240.0004 +1.7624 +0.7632
Standard error0.00100.00530.0005-0.00100.00060.0001 0.0078 0.0133
Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
2044 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 890086143 and quasi-random dice
Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
Cube: 3-ply cubeful prune [grandmaster]

However a RO (again unequal MET) shows that this is a huge pass if Petko clears so maybe cubing is OK even +100 Elo. We are in a gray area here, but for sure I'd not cube any random player that I felt was 100 Elo or more weaker than me and I suspect a few of them will still take in the below position. Adam, however, is too good to take below.

The score (after 0 games) is: gnubg 5, Neil 0 (match to 7 points)

Move number 4: gnubg on roll, cube decision?

gnubg100


 '2X '1X2O4X2X3X '3X '1O

 ' '1O2O2O4O1O2O ' ' ' '

Neil121

Position ID: tL0GAQMmb+cAAA Match ID: MAHgAFAAAAAA

• gnubg doubles

Cube decision
Rollout cubeless equity +0.6395(Money: +0.6311)
Cubeful equities:
1.Double, pass +1.0000
2.Double, take +1.3510 +0.3510
3.No double +0.9630 -0.0370
Proper cube action:Double, pass
Rollout details
WinW gW bg LoseL gL bgCubelessCubeful
Centered 1-cube0.81160.01200.0000-0.18840.00410.0001 +0.6395 +0.9630
Standard error0.00050.00090.0000-0.00050.00010.0001 0.0012 0.0045
Player Neil owns 2-cube0.82330.06260.0001-0.17670.00260.0002 +2.1001 +1.3510
Standard error0.00150.01040.0001-0.00150.00160.0001 0.0135 0.0237
Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
425 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 890086143 and quasi-random dice
Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
Cube: 3-ply cubeful prune [grandmaster]

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