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Lets see if the bots can help us to understand further
Posted By: neilkaz In Response To: Skill Difference (Timothy Chow)
Date: Sunday, 27 June 2010, at 7:56 p.m.
First off all, an XG 4 ply RO of the situation assuming equal skill. I used 4 ply since 4 ply's eval was closer to the actual truth here than 3 ply so I suspect 4 ply cube will make fewer errors later (ie a bad take after clearling). We see that vs equal skill the cube is clear but with 22% chance to win and that lovely 1%+ luckbox G chance, the take is also clear.
is Player 2
score: 5
pip: 1087 point match pip: 129
score: 0
is Player 1
XGID=---AABE-B---bB-b-bbdBa-b--:0:0:-1:00:0:5:0:7:10 on roll, cube action?
Analyzed in Rollout No Double Player Winning Chances: 77.53% (G: 3.96% B: 0.13%) Opponent Winning Chances: 22.47% (G: 1.47% B: 0.05%) Double/Take Player Winning Chances: 77.97% (G: 5.22% B: 0.07%) Opponent Winning Chances: 22.03% (G: 1.28% B: 0.05%) Cubeless Equities No Double: +0.573 Double: +1.634 Cubeful Equities No Double: +0.826 (-0.130) Double/Take: +0.957 Double/Drop: +1.000 (+0.043) Best Cube action: Double / Take Rollout details 2154 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 87427665
Moves and cube decisions: 4 plyConfidence No Double: ± 0.008 (+0.818...+0.834) Confidence Double: ± 0.011 (+0.946...+0.968) Double Decision confidence: 100.0% Take Decision confidence: 100.0% Duration: 1 hour 10 minutes eXtreme Gammon Version: 1.14, MET: Rockwell-Kazaross
Now to get a handle on the skill factor I used GNU with the J/T+100 Elo MET.
Since GNU 3 ply cube does a much better job of evaluating the cube here than does 2 ply, I used 3 ply cube for the RO, trying to minimize later cube errors.
As we see this decision now seems close. I still think that with a 100 Elo difference it may have been best for Petko to wait for an improvement and then cube.
The score (after 0 games) is: gnubg 5, Neil 0 (match to 7 points)
Move number 3: gnubg on roll, cube decision?
gnubg 108
Neil 129 Position ID: 1D6DAQMmbzMGAA Match ID: MAHgAFAAAAAA
• gnubg doubles
Alert: wrong double ( -0.0114)!
Cube decision Rollout cubeless equity +0.5675 (Money: +0.5613) Cubeful equities: 1. No double +0.7746 2. Double, pass +1.0000 +0.2254 3. Double, take +0.7632 -0.0114 Proper cube action: No double, take (4.8%) Rollout details
Win W g W bg Lose L g L bg Cubeless Cubeful Centered 1-cube 0.7716 0.0316 0.0006 - 0.2284 0.0140 0.0002 +0.5675 +0.7746 Standard error 0.0006 0.0017 0.0003 - 0.0006 0.0005 0.0000 0.0020 0.0039 Player Neil owns 2-cube 0.7807 0.0987 0.0010 - 0.2193 0.0124 0.0004 +1.7624 +0.7632 Standard error 0.0010 0.0053 0.0005 - 0.0010 0.0006 0.0001 0.0078 0.0133 Full cubeful rollout with var.redn. 2044 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 890086143 and quasi-random dice Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class] keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16 Skip pruning for 1-ply moves. Cube: 3-ply cubeful prune [grandmaster] However a RO (again unequal MET) shows that this is a huge pass if Petko clears so maybe cubing is OK even +100 Elo. We are in a gray area here, but for sure I'd not cube any random player that I felt was 100 Elo or more weaker than me and I suspect a few of them will still take in the below position. Adam, however, is too good to take below.
The score (after 0 games) is: gnubg 5, Neil 0 (match to 7 points)
Move number 4: gnubg on roll, cube decision?
gnubg 100
Neil 121 Position ID: tL0GAQMmb+cAAA Match ID: MAHgAFAAAAAA
• gnubg doubles
Cube decision Rollout cubeless equity +0.6395 (Money: +0.6311) Cubeful equities: 1. Double, pass +1.0000 2. Double, take +1.3510 +0.3510 3. No double +0.9630 -0.0370 Proper cube action: Double, pass Rollout details
Win W g W bg Lose L g L bg Cubeless Cubeful Centered 1-cube 0.8116 0.0120 0.0000 - 0.1884 0.0041 0.0001 +0.6395 +0.9630 Standard error 0.0005 0.0009 0.0000 - 0.0005 0.0001 0.0001 0.0012 0.0045 Player Neil owns 2-cube 0.8233 0.0626 0.0001 - 0.1767 0.0026 0.0002 +2.1001 +1.3510 Standard error 0.0015 0.0104 0.0001 - 0.0015 0.0016 0.0001 0.0135 0.0237 Full cubeful rollout with var.redn. 425 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 890086143 and quasi-random dice Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class] keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16 Skip pruning for 1-ply moves. Cube: 3-ply cubeful prune [grandmaster]
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