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Rollout 26% take point

Posted By: Bob Koca
Date: Thursday, 23 December 2010, at 9:47 p.m.

In Response To: Rollout 26% take point (Stanley E. Richards)

"My tables assume a take point which is 60% towards the Dead TP. 30% - (30%-23%) x .6 = 26%."

That works for for a longish race for money play (78% is 60% of the way from 75% to 80%) but how much did you test it for various match play scores? In particular I think you will be dropping too easily if your recube has a low give point. For example if 3a doubles 4a the dead and live values are 35.17% and 21.07%. Your guideline gives an effective takepoint of 26.71% which is off by a lot. It seems to be only about 24.3 or 24.4% which is needed.

is Player 2

score: 0
pip: 93
4 point match
pip: 84
score: 1

is Player 1
XGID=---BCBCCAA-----aabbccba---:0:0:1:00:1:0:0:4:10
on roll, cube action?


Analyzed in Rollout
No Double
Player Winning Chances: 75.74% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 24.26% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Double/Take
Player Winning Chances: 75.68% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 24.32% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Cubeless Equities
No Double:+0.515
Double:+1.532
Cubeful Equities
No Double:+0.835 (-0.165)
Double/Take:+1.005 (+0.005)
Double/Drop:+1.000
Best Cube action: Double / Drop
Rollout details
1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 4
Moves and cube decisions: 3 ply
Confidence No Double: ± 0.003 (+0.832...+0.838)
Confidence Double: ± 0.005 (+1.000...+1.009)
Double Decision confidence: 100.0%
Take Decision confidence: 96.7%
Duration: 1 minute 34 seconds

eXtreme Gammon Version: 1.21, MET: Rockwell-Kazaross

Also realize that it should be tailored to the individual position. For example as races become shorter there is less cube power. A holding game with a prime ready also has less cube power.

"The below rollout shows a GWC of 24.5% and a small drop (.039)."

No and No. Get the GWC from the DT and not the no double. 1.05 take equity means taking is a .050 error.

"However, XG 3 ply believed that the GWC was 26.22% and this would be a take. The take point seems to be 26% for this problem"

The 26.22% gives a very solid take and you only decrement it by .22% to get what you think is the minimum %age needed. If there are no gammons every extra 1% of loss chances adjusts the take equity by about .04. The 3 ply gave a take by about .078 so adjust down to about 24.3% and not to just 26%. Also you would rather look at a rollout here. The 3 ply is just sort of guessing how much the recube power will be. I made the position a little better to get a borderline choice and it suggest the takepoint for this type of position is very close to 25%.

is Player 2

score: 0
pip: 31
3 point match
pip: 57
score: 0

is Player 1
XGID=aBBBCCC---------------b---:0:0:-1:00:0:0:0:3:10
on roll, cube action?


Analyzed in Rollout
No Double
Player Winning Chances: 74.88% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 25.12% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Double/Take
Player Winning Chances: 74.98% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 25.02% (G: 0.00% B: 0.00%)
Cubeless Equities
No Double:+0.498
Double:+1.268
Cubeful Equities
No Double:+0.925 (-0.075)
Double/Take:+1.001 (+0.001)
Double/Drop:+1.000
Best Cube action: Double / Drop
Rollout details
1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 4
Moves and cube decisions: 3 ply
Confidence No Double: ± 0.020 (+0.905...+0.944)
Confidence Double: ± 0.026 (+0.975...+1.027)
Double Decision confidence: 100.0%
Take Decision confidence: 52.1%
Duration: 27.1 seconds

eXtreme Gammon Version: 1.21, MET: Rockwell-Kazaross

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