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A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2

Posted By: Michael Depreli
Date: Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 12:16 p.m.

In Response To: A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2 (Neil Robins)

Yesterday I was looking at a game where three missed doubles by my opponent weren't picked up by XGR+ because it didn't look beyond 1-ply.

Note about cube

The search interval affects only checker play. However when using eXtreme Gammon 3-ply, cube decisions are first analyzed in 1-ply (cubeful). If the decision of not doubling is 0.200 more than doubling, the analysis stops. If less than 0.200 then a 3-ply is preformed.

In the process of this study we check also the effect of the 0.200 threshold by forcing all cube decisions to go to 3-ply.

On the sample set, there are 21434 non obvious cube decisions (non obvious meaning less than 0.200 equity between No Double and Double)

Using the 0.200 threshold results in 3 cube error in match play (0.019, 0.019 and 0.017) and 3 in Money games (0.052, 0.044 and 0.033)

This represents an error every 3692 decisions, or every 1901 games. The estimated cost in Elo term is 0.06.

It could be an idea of improvement to apply the search interval factor to the 0.200 threshold. In this case the large interval (0.300 thresholds) would result in a single error, while the huge (0.400 threshold) would catch them all. But again, the gain is very minimal.

Note: Version 1.14 did introduce the fact that the search interval modify the cube threshold. So with a Huge interval the threshold to use 3-ply is 0.400.

Messages In This Thread

• Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
  higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 11:12 a.m.
  • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
    christian munk-christensen -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 11:40 a.m.
  • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
    Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 1:22 p.m.
    • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
      Higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 1:45 p.m.
      • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
        Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 2:26 p.m.
        • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
          higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 2:36 p.m.
          • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
            Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 3:13 p.m.
            • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
              higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 3:32 p.m.
              • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
                Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 3:37 p.m.
                • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
                  higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:27 p.m.
                  • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
                    Stick -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 12:19 a.m.
                    • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
                      neilkaz -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 4:34 a.m.
                    • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
                      higonefive -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 11:02 p.m.
  • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
    Sebastiaan kuijs -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 2:43 p.m.
  • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
    neilkaz -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:08 p.m.
    • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
      higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:39 p.m.
    • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
      Neil Robins -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 6:09 p.m.
      • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
        neilkaz -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 4:30 a.m.
        • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
          Neil Robins -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 11:55 a.m.
          • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
            Michael Depreli -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 12:16 p.m.
            • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
              Neil Robins -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 1:35 p.m.
              • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
                Michael Depreli -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 2:19 p.m.
          • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
            neilkaz -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 2:38 p.m.
            • A possible correction for what you posted at 2+2
              Neil Robins -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 4:52 p.m.
              • How are cube decisions made in high level XG rollouts?
                Neil Robins -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 9:58 p.m.
              • XG1 XGR+ evals
                neilkaz -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 5:03 a.m.
                • XGR+ RO started for your 2nd position
                  neilkaz -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 5:07 a.m.
                  • XGR+ RO result for your 2nd position
                    neilkaz -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 4:12 p.m.
                • XG1 XGR+ evals
                  Neil Robins -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 12:04 p.m.
  • Where's the RO people are talking about? *NM*
    Timothy Chow -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:25 p.m.
    • Where's the RO people are talking about?
      Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:28 p.m.
      • Are you going to take this slam quietly?
        Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:53 p.m.
        • Are you going to take this slam quietly?
          Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 5:18 p.m.
      • Thanks, Stick! *NM*
        Timothy Chow -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 5:21 p.m.
    • Where's the RO people are talking about?
      higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:30 p.m.
  • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
    Casper van der Tak -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:34 p.m.
  • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
    Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:34 p.m.
    • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
      higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:41 p.m.
      • particle accelerators (OT)
        Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 4:57 p.m.
        • particle accelerators (OT)
          higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 6:02 p.m.
          • particle accelerators (OT)
            Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 6:08 p.m.
            • particle accelerators (OT) Thanks. Adding up my booklist. *NM*
              higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 6:41 p.m.
  • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
    Timothy Chow -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 5:20 p.m.
    • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
      Stick -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 5:24 p.m.
      • Curling up with a holding game (And Who Can Truthfully Claim He Would Have Gotten This Right?).
        Timothy Chow -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 5:25 p.m.
  • Summing it up.
    higonefive -- Saturday, 5 March 2011, at 6:32 p.m.
    • I slightly disagree
      Timothy Chow -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 8:11 p.m.
      • I slightly disagree
        higonefive -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 10:26 p.m.
        • I slightly disagree
          Casper van der Tak -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 10:41 p.m.
          • I slightly disagree
            higonefive -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 10:37 a.m.
            • I slightly disagree
              Casper van der Tak -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 10:40 a.m.
  • gnuBG 3-ply (Grandmaster) rollout disagrees
    Chuck Bower -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 6:04 p.m.
    • gnuBG 3-ply (Grandmaster) rollout disagrees
      higonefive -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 6:57 p.m.
    • gnuBG 3-ply (Grandmaster) rollout disagrees
      Michael Depreli -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 7:05 p.m.
      • gnuBG 3-ply (Grandmaster) rollout disagrees
        Chuck Bower -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 7:13 p.m.
        • gnuBG 3-ply (Grandmaster) rollout disagrees
          Michael Depreli -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 7:24 p.m.
          • gnuBG 3-ply (Grandmaster) rollout disagrees
            Chuck Bower -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 8:35 p.m.
            • gnuBG 3-ply (Grandmaster) rollout disagrees
              Michael Depreli -- Sunday, 6 March 2011, at 9:01 p.m.
    • gnuBG 2-ply (Supremo) rollout
      Chuck Bower -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 1:30 a.m.
      • gnuBG 2-ply (Supremo) rollout
        Michael Depreli -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 5:22 p.m.
      • gnuBG 2-ply (Supremo) rollout
        Daniel Murphy -- Tuesday, 8 March 2011, at 4:50 p.m.
      • gnuBG 2-ply (Supremo) rollout
        Michael Depreli -- Wednesday, 9 March 2011, at 10:29 a.m.
  • Can we get a XGR+ RO?
    Matt Cohn-Geier -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 3:28 p.m.
    • What candidate plays would you suggest?
      neilkaz -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 3:56 p.m.
      • What candidate plays would you suggest?
        Matt Cohn-Geier -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 4:01 p.m.
        • What candidate plays would you suggest?
          Matt Cohn-Geier -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 4:05 p.m.
          • What candidate plays would you suggest?
            neilkaz -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 4:34 p.m.
    • Can we get a XGR+ RO?
      higonefive -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 4:14 p.m.
      • Can we get a XGR+ RO?
        Matt Cohn-Geier -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 4:23 p.m.
        • Can we get a XGR+ RO? Touché. *NM*
          higonefive -- Monday, 7 March 2011, at 5:06 p.m.