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of course backgammon has been solved

Posted By: Frank Berger
Date: Wednesday, 6 April 2011, at 8:33 p.m.

In Response To: of course backgammon has been solved (LowRayTeeng)

i agree that backgammon has been solved

You may agree, but this is plain and simply wrong.

the proof is to look at the bots, not the human players for any given roll, click a few bot buttons and what do you get ?? a accurate percentage readout of all possible moves with probabilities for their eventual win

All bots agree on a opening 3-1, but just look at the Depreli 2010 benchmark. There are a lot of positions where the bots disagree, even positions where no one gets it right. Take very unusual positions and to different degrees the bots will have little to no idea how to handle it. This is very different to what I would call solved (not even weakly solved.

this means backgammon has been "solved" because if you want to play the percentages, there is basically only 1 answer.

But just if the position is simple or you stick with one bot. Have you read Corbetts "Backgammon Problems"? I would recommend it to you.

of course the bots contain lots of human supplied logic that is used to evaluate the various move choices, but the fact remains, for any given b-g position and any given roll, the available moves can be accurately computed for their eventual win rates.

wrong.

if b-g was NOT solved, then the bots would not agree, and bots playing bots would not all play the same and they would not have the same win rates against us puny humans

The bot's don't agree..

i don't understand why this is still being debated, it reminds me of reading about how all the b-g "greats" and their b-g "theories" in the 1970s were proven wrong, again & again and again, when they started playing against bots

If you're believes were true you would be right, but the assumptions are wrong.

this has nothing to do with human egos, it is a fact of b-g theory & knowledge being programmed into computers, which excell at zillions of routine calculations to verify their correctness

thanks, and yes i'm a retired computer geek with 20+ years following these silly debates about humans vs. computers

Well, I'm a bot programmer. I guess I know a lot about bots.....

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