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Have you ever seen anything like this?

Posted By: MK
Date: Wednesday, 1 May 2024, at 11:03 p.m.

In Response To: Have you ever seen anything like this? (Timothy Chow)

> If there's an inordinate amount of hitting, which causes tons of checkers
: to get sent back, then this sort of thing always (or usually) happens.

Do you mean this in bot-v-bot play also? I can't see how one or a few bad moves that could trigger a short hitting frenzy wouldn't be self-corrected by the bot before getting totally out of control and lasting many hundreds of moves.

> This type of position doesn't come up enough during training (and when it
: does come up, the time horizon is too long) for the neural net to learn how
: to play well, so it makes all kinds of strange-looking moves.

I don't know enough about neural net training to underdtand what "time horizon" is but this isn't during training through random moves. It's not even just one single "this type of position" but many hundreds of them one after another in actual play.

The reason why this may be an earth shaking problem is because my experiments are essentially rollouts using "mutant settings" which means that what can happen during my experiments can happen during rollouts and not just in GnuBG but in XG and all other in-bred bots.

Most of my experiments were run unattended, often overnight. It's by luck that I happened to looked at the command window at the right time to catch this. In about 500-600K games that I ran, it mat have happened tens or hundreds of times.

Rollout are run "in the dark" without even any chance of catching a glipse of positions scrolling on the screen. Could this kind of bizarre games have been happening in rollouts all along without anyone noticing? And if so, what would the implication of that would be??

BTW: Philippe Michel also posted a response about this on bug-gnubg list, at:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnubg/2024-04/msg00032.html

You guys would probably understand it better than I could and may wnat to read and/or reply to him there also.

MK

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