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Article on "Mr. Bridge" Mentions Backgammon and Poker

Posted By: Jakob Garal
Date: Friday, 7 May 2010, at 10:53 p.m.

In Response To: Article on "Mr. Bridge" Mentions Backgammon and Poker (Bob Koca)

Dear friends,

I was very surprised that only one person has asked about definition what you discuss about. It looks like everybody talks about things that could be very hard to compare from the definition. I don't think that I can open something NEW for you, but I try as minimum to formulate that as far as I think will be correctly.

What is chess? - It is a game with so called "COMPLETE INFORMATION". What is bridge? - It is a game with incomplete information. What is backgammon? - It is a game with random feature of one of his important play parameter - dice. What is poker? - It is a game with incomplete information (you don't know what cards have received your opponents) AND random feature of extra coming cards at flop, turn and river.

What else?

Is it chess a complex game from the rules? - YES! Is it chess a complex game from the taking correct decision? - NO!

Because: 1. you have complete information about your and opponent's power and position, 2. you haven't any random playing feature that could change your correct or optimal decision to incorrect or negative.

It's never mind, that to find this correct decision for this or that player is enormously difficult and not so easy in reality, but from the formal logic it might be easy, because you can find it from definition!

Is it bridge a complex game from the rules? - YES. (One extra remark - I suppose that we discuss about contract-bridge and not about rubber-bridge, though the game rules in both variants are the same, but the scoring systems are huge different). Is it bridge a complex game from the taking correct decision? - YES, because each player should take a decision with INCOMPLETE information during the bidding, declaring and defence.

Is it backgammon a complex game from the rules? - NO! Is it backgammon a complex game from the taking correct decision? - YES, because each player should take a decision with possible changing of playing conditions with the next RANDOM roll of his opponent and his own.

Is it poker a complex game from the rules? - NO! Is it poker a complex game from the taking correct decision? - YES! Because each player should take a decision with: 1. INCOMPLETE information about card distribution of his opponents, 2. RANDOM appearance of specific cards by flop, turn and river.

My personal opinion: chess should be excluded from the comparison, because in this game we have - from formal logic - all necessary to take correct decision and nobody can speak about complexity by taking any decision - it is not the question of complexity - it is a problem of some logical operations with known result!

So, we have three games, that we try to compare.

Now the question Nr.1: what should we compare? and immediately question Nr.2: How should we compare?

My personal opinion: all these games are very complex by taking correct decision and probably staying at the same equal level of their complexity.

The difference between the numbers of the best players, who are coming on the top of the world, that all participants of this discussion had remarked will be very quick - immediately - change as far as we change tournament conditions for backgammon and poker. Thanks great Mr. Vanderbilt in bridge these changes - from rubber-bridge to contract-bridge - were happened practically 90 years ago. Should we do the same for backgammon and poker (I mean new tournament format with Prize Fund Sharing - FPP-BSS-Tournament - Fixed Play Parameters Tournament with Balanced Scoring System), then we have receive correct scoring system, and we should have definitive on the top of backgammon as well as of poker the same number of the best players as we have now in bridge.

NO MORE, NO LESS!

Another comparision that somebody tries to show could be supposedly incorrect because has no any common denominator to such operation.

Jakob

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