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BGonline.org Forums
Apples and Oranges
Posted By: phil simborg In Response To: Ray Fogerlund (Rod)
Date: Saturday, 21 December 2013, at 3:00 a.m.
The Giant voting criteria is very loose Bill thinks it's about PR and win percentage, and certainly those are important ways to rate a player. Others, like me, give credit to people who can post impressive win percentages even though they don't have amazingly low PR's (Carter is a good example that Bill points to.) Ray has an impressive record for cashing and getting ABT points. Of course, he attends more tournaments than most, but his record of cashing per event entered is excellent, and that is worthy of consideration.
Some people believe that if you don't play much you don't deserve to be on the Giant's list. There is no doubt that Dana impressed the hell out of us in two tournaments this year, but where has he been the rest of the year? I don't fault him for not playing, but that certainly lowers him on my Giants list.
What about good sportsmanship? I won't name names, but there are some people I just won't vote for no matter how good they are, or some I would certainly lower on my list because they bring a negative aroma to the game whenever they walk in the door and act like bad sports or disturb people and just generally make it less fun to come to a tournament.
Many of us believe we should reward people who do more for the game. Look at all Mochy and Michy have done to grow the game in Japan and help put Japan on the map, and look at his traveling, his quizzes, and his sharing of his knowledge. Look at all Neil has contributed to the game over the years. Justin and Joe Russell have given much of their time to help teach college kids and to help run tournaments for the world through the USBGF. Look what an ambassador Paul Weaver, Bob Wachtel and Carter are by traveling all over the world to compete on behalf of the U.S.
There are things outside of match performance that influence me. When MCG got 9 out of 10 of Weaver's positions correct, in 6 minutes, and nobody else in the room, including Mochy and other top Giants got more than 4 correct, that pushed Matt way up on my list. When I am at a tournament and put a tough play into XG and 7 great players look at it and only one or two get it right and are able to explain why, that shoves them up a notch on my list as well.
So we have many different criteria to determine who we should vote for, and we each value (and devalue) things differently. Certainly we can make a strong argument for including Ray, and there are some excellent arguments to take him off your list or lower him...it's personal preference. I think we are arguing apples and oranges here.
At the same time, it's nice to hear Bill's point of view, and Rod's and others, as it does influence me and to some extent it reinforces some of the things I have been thinking about various people.
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