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BGonline.org Forums
"Hero Bots" bad for backgammon :(
Posted By: Phil Simborg In Response To: "Hero Bots" bad for backgammon :( (Jack Mack)
Date: Saturday, 18 February 2017, at 2:32 p.m.
Your thoughts are interesting and though-provoking.
First, we already do have heroes in backgammon, we just don't promote them and feature them well by use of better streaming and media and by seeding them in tournaments and by marketing them and the game better.
If backgammon were more popular and more widely-viewed and we had sponsors and we presented the game in a more fun and sexy way, our current heroes would be known all over the world, even outside of the backgammon community. Also, we would attract more heroes. Some of the great players that don't have a huge financial incentive to play would come back and play more...people like Gus and Sander and Nack and MCG and Falafel and Joe Russell and Pasko and Svobo and Wilcox and Levermann and Grandell and Francois and Senk and Robertie and Magriel and Jake and many other greats you don't see playing a lot right now would have an incentive to play more.
Our current stars like Mochy and Michy and Akiko and Victor would become well-known.
All of these people are not only great players, but they are interesting people with interesting stories. And this is regardless of whether they play close to the bots or not. Playing at a low PR, or playing in a manner that the bots consider best, does not mean they are playing poorly at all; and playing differently than the bots play, with higher PR's or different variations in their game, simply doesn't make any sense at all until someone can prove that you truly can win more that way.
We have to believe in "science" and "facts" and not anecdotal "evidence," which is not evidence at all to my mind.
First, until someone can prove that not playing like XG is better than playing like XG, I would find it hard to believe that it is better not to play like the bots. Is there anyone out there that knows the game that believes they can beat XG in the long term? Has anyone beaten XG in a long session? I don't know of anyone who has, and I have had reports from some of the best players in the world who have played many, many matches against XG and they are not ahead. John O'Hagan and Ed O'Laughlin have played hundreds of matches against xg and they will tell you they are losers.
What about the people who have the best PR's. In particular, Mochy, Michy, and Victor. They play more like the computer than just about anyone, and their W/L records in live play indicate a direct correllation.
Yes, I know that some of us like to play props against XG, and I would put money on Jim Pasko to beat XG if you start every game at PaskoGammon or in a deep back game. This is an area where XG is probably not as good as the best humans (yet I am not sure that this has been competely proven yet...just my opinion), but that is a special condition...not regular match or money play.
Bottom line is that I don't believe our lack of heroes, or famous backgammon players, has anything to do with the bots. It's about marketing and the lack of the general popularity of the game. I believe some of the ideas that I, and others have advanced, will help the image and visibility of the game and be more attractive to the general public as well as casual backgammon players.
There are millions of people playing backgammon around the world that don't even know who Mochy is; who never watch a streamed or recorded match; who don't even know there are backgammon clubs and tournaments. Hell, we don't have to attract new players to grow the game and bring in more money and sponsors and tournament players....if we just reach a small portion of people who already play and enjoy the game we can grow the game tremendously.
I continue to believe that our Federations, organizations of the players, is our best hope to make advancements and growth. This cannot be done by individual tournament directors and promotors alone...though we need those people on board with the new ideas because it is these professionals, these profit-minded and people working hard for the love of the game that provide the venues for play that we must have working together with the Federations that are key.
So why am I making my case here on Stick's Forum. Because I believe that many of the important Federation and club and tournament directors and people who can influence change are here. And together we can push for changes and push the leaders and the Federations and tournament organizers to do more to market backgammon and showcase our heroes and attract sponsors and all of this will make the game more exciting, fun, and even profitable for all involved.
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