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"Hero Bots" bad for backgammon :(

Posted By: Phil Simborg
Date: Monday, 20 February 2017, at 5:40 a.m.

In Response To: "Hero Bots" bad for backgammon :( (Jack Mack)

I don't believe anyone who understands the game and XG is about to say the bots are always right, and in the case of early doubles, as you said, they may well be off. But we have no evidence the bot is wrong, and we have much supporting evidence that those who are the best players and win the most pretty much make the same decisions that the bot makes with very little variance. This, I do call evidence.

If you are saying it is because they are only playing other players who also play like the bots, then I would be happy to wager any of these top players against anyone you can find that does not play like the bots, and of course, I would even give odds.

I am certainly willing to admit that you are theoretically correct, but until I see evidence of your assertions, I will go with the evidence we have. The more you play like the bots the more you win.

There is another way to prove your theory. Have someone who does not play like the bot play many matches or games against the bot and have a winning record.

Again, I know for a fact that this has been done if you only play the bot those types of games we know the bot does not play well. Jim Pasko can take either side of PaskoGammon, play the bot from either side, and outperform the bot. Can he do this, consistently, playing the bot from the normal starting position? I don't see Jim, or ANYONE taking this bet.

Someone did take this bet against Snowie many years ago and won total points by finally, after 17 games, maneuvering Snowie into a game it didn't understand and getting the cube up to 256. I do believe it might be possible to do something like this to XG as well, but that only proves that the bot has glitches and things it doesn't understand. The best players in the world know this, and they do discount XG and the bots when it comes to these areas of play. So in effect, they agree with you in part in specific situations. So why don't we see Mochy and Falafel and Victor and the other low PR players post very high PR's on occasion when they decide it is not right to play like the bot? We do.

I watched Mochy in the quarterfinals of San Antonio three years ago play a game at over 20 PR when he was trying to run his opponent out of time and intentionally get into a massive back game. Players like Pasko and David Todd might start out a game "normally" but if they find they have gotten hit a couple of times, they often do the rope-a-dope and get into massive backgames, playing at ridiculous PR's, simply because they are confident they can outplay any human trying to defend them if they succeed in getting into that game....I do this myself in chouettes against humans I believe I can outplay...to hell with PR....I want the cash! (And it's fun.)

But again, what we have from you is a theory that maybe playing like the bot is not the best way to win. Well, if you are playing someone who is far better than you or far worse, you might well be right. And if you read Jake and Walter's "A fish" book you will see that for many years we have all known that there can be increased equity in not doing what the bot says.

But ALL the evidence relative to playing a great player, or even an equal player, points only in one direction: the more you play like the bot the more you will win. I won't believe in your theory, or creationism, or astrology, or that there isn't global warming, or anything else that science and facts and experience and all the experts in the field refute. And so far, the evidence is not with you.

Wait. Let's assume for just a second, you are right. The bots don't play as well as humans might be able to play if they don't try to play like the bot. How will that change anything about who are the heroes of the game? It currently is not and will not be the bots, even if they are better. We will still have the greatest respect for the players who win the most and accomplish the most and who are good sports and great ambassadors of the game. That is why Mochy and Michy and Akiko and Falafel are at the top of the Giants list....they not only play great and win a lot, they are very nice and fun and interesting people who are great ambassadors, EVEN THOUGH they don't play as well as the bots (in the opinion of all who know the game well, including them).

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