BGonline.org Forums

13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO

Posted By: Jim Stutz
Date: Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 2:38 a.m.

In Response To: RO (John O'Hagan)

One of XG's great advantages over human players is its superior skill bringing home gammons, from all kinds of positions, but especially from blotty, complicated ones. IMO, XG plays GG better (+100 ELO, probably more) than the best human player, and far, far better than the average open-level player. If the bot-recommended GG play is blotty and complicated, and yields less than 1.5% more gammons while losing about .5% more games than the straight-forward alternative -- in this case, simply covering the 5 point -- then I would argue that the straight-forward alternative is likely the better GG play OTB for most, if not all, human players.

(It's true that the rollout result is based on "optimal" bot vs. bot play on both sides, and that XG is also better than humans at defending against GG play, but it generally takes more skill to play GG than to defend against GG.)

Messages In This Thread

• 41$-52S-53 at GG
  John O'Hagan -- Thursday, 2 June 2016, at 3:39 p.m.
  • 41$-52S-53 at GG
    ah_clem -- Thursday, 2 June 2016, at 4:55 p.m.
  • 41$-52S-53 at GG
    Keene -- Thursday, 2 June 2016, at 6:14 p.m.
    • 41$-52S-53 at GG
      neilkaz -- Friday, 3 June 2016, at 2:25 a.m.
  • 41$-52S-53 at GG
    HOMINID -- Friday, 3 June 2016, at 1:38 p.m.
  • 41$-52S-53 at GG
    Taper_Mike -- Friday, 3 June 2016, at 6:48 p.m.
  • RO
    John O'Hagan -- Friday, 3 June 2016, at 8:18 p.m.
    • 13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO
      Jim Stutz -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 2:38 a.m.
      • 13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO
        Bob Koca -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 4:01 a.m.
        • 13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO
          Jim Stutz -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 5:09 a.m.
          • 13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO
            Stick -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 5:36 a.m.
            • Hey Stick, how do you say "prop" in French?
              Jim Stutz -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 12:49 p.m.
              • Hey Stick, how do you say "prop" in French?
                Bob Koca -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 4:44 p.m.
              • Hey Stick, how do you say "prop" in French?
                Stick -- Monday, 6 June 2016, at 5:19 a.m.
          • 13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO
            Bob Koca -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 5:37 a.m.
      • 13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO
        Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 5:44 p.m.
        • Some evidence
          Bob koca -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 5:48 p.m.
          • Some counter-evidence
            Chuck Bower -- Saturday, 4 June 2016, at 11:11 p.m.
            • Some counter-evidence
              Bob Koca -- Sunday, 5 June 2016, at 1:09 a.m.
              • Some counter-evidence
                Chuck Bower -- Sunday, 5 June 2016, at 11:32 a.m.
        • Playing the GG side requires more checker-play skill, on average, than defending against GG
          Jim Stutz -- Sunday, 5 June 2016, at 12:29 a.m.
          • Playing the GG side requires more checker-play skill, on average, than defending against GG
            Bob Koca -- Sunday, 5 June 2016, at 1:06 a.m.
            • Playing GG requires more checker-play skill, on average, than playing GS
              Jim Stutz -- Sunday, 5 June 2016, at 4:29 a.m.
      • 13-5 is the better choice for most, if not all, human players, IMO
        Keene -- Monday, 6 June 2016, at 2:38 p.m.