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Touch Move Compromise - take pictures

Posted By: Colin Owen
Date: Thursday, 5 December 2013, at 1:04 a.m.

In Response To: Touch Move Compromise - take pictures (Igor)

I don't know of such a study, Igor.

I recall that you are a Maths Professor. You will know, therefore, that we can never actually achieve randomness, merely approach it. If we shake the dice 10 times up and down in a cup, then there will still be some kind of an association between the position of the numbers on the dice when they went into the cup and what they are now. Extra shaking may only reduce that association by a minute degree - negligibly so, even infitesimally - but it will be diminished. I could have said the same after 100 shakes. I suspect though that further shaking probably produces negligible improvements (in the approach to randomness) after only a few shakes, perhaps as little as 3 or 4.

But what is clear, however, is that we ARE supposed to shake the dice. This requirement of every rule set I have ever come across - and that is not followed by some players - PRESUMES that merely tipping the dice out of a lipped cup, without shaking, may not approach randomness sufficiently closely. This is particularly so if one or both dice stop fast where they land, as can happen sometimes (some board surfaces are more prone to this). Dice are also not certain to make contact with the lip, particularly with smaller dice and larger round cups. This presumption though seems reasonable, particularly as there are players who claim that they can influence dice cast from even a lipped cup.

It seems like common sense then, that dice not shaken but cast from a lipped cup into a baffle box, will approach randomness more closely (than those cast from the cup straight onto the board). But it may well be that no one has done any scientific research on these matters, so it is mere speculation.

Perhaps though, it's a bit like that third roll position discussed recently on these forums, where our host stated that he didn't feel that it needed a rollout...

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