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... made less precise by cutting off the corners

Posted By: Albert Steg
Date: Friday, 26 August 2016, at 3:24 p.m.

In Response To: ... made less precise by cutting off the corners (Phil Simborg)

Phil, I'm sorry I was caustic in some of my replies yesterday. To get back to the genuine issues:

"The purpose of the post was to say to those people who criticize electronic dice because they fear they are not as fair as real dice that a) their real dice aren't compeletely fair either, and b) it may be that electronic dice are even more fair than real dice."

This is the slippage between precision/fairness I alluded to before. "Precision" dice can be perfectly "fair" even if they are not perfectly "precise," and this is what is annoying some of us, because it feels like you're suggesting a problem that doesn't actually exist in order to prod us toward your ideal of a purely electronic future for backgammon.

For the imprecision of "precision" dice to lead to unfairness, you need a further condition that favors one player over the other.

Further, as a simpler matter of usage, it's my impression that the term "Precision Dice" in backgammon primarily distinguishes them from the "pitted" style of dice included in older backgammon sets -- the ones with the pips gouged out of the material, leading to a substantially increased occurrences of 6's. When you're at a tournament, and someone asks "do you have pair of precision dice we can use, they aren't thinking about the pointy casino dice, they're not wanting to play with something that might have come out of a monopoly board.

Even so, if I had to play a match using the old pitted dice, even knowing they were far from precise, I wouldn't feel the dice were "unfair" -- particularly if we used one pair - because no advantage is awarded to either player.

Messages In This Thread

• Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
  Phil Simborg -- Wednesday, 24 August 2016, at 10:40 p.m.
  • Data
    Bob Koca -- Wednesday, 24 August 2016, at 10:57 p.m.
    • Data
      Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 12:44 a.m.
      • Data
        Bob Koca -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 12:57 a.m.
        • Data
          Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 4:54 a.m.
          • Data
            Bob Koca -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 5:17 a.m.
            • Data
              Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 12:34 p.m.
              • Which question were you answering?
                Bob Koca -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 2:47 p.m.
                • Which question were you answering?
                  Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 3:52 p.m.
              • Data
                Bob Koca -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 4:15 p.m.
                • this response is for the 4:52pm post *NM*
                  Bob Koca -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 4:17 p.m.
      • Data
        Art Grater -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 1:33 a.m.
      • ... made less precise by cutting off the corners
        vidvis -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 4:34 p.m.
        • Beg to differ
          Chris Knapp -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 1:23 a.m.
        • ... made less precise by cutting off the corners
          Phil Simborg -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 1:33 p.m.
          • ... made less precise by cutting off the corners
            Albert Steg -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 3:24 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Art Grater -- Wednesday, 24 August 2016, at 11:26 p.m.
    • Laboratory Certification of RNG RandomnessBackgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
      Mleifer -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 5:07 p.m.
      • Laboratory Certification of RNG RandomnessBackgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        Art Grater -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 6:06 p.m.
        • Laboratory Certification of RNG RandomnessBackgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
          Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 6:40 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Seth -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 1:24 a.m.
    • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
      Art Grater -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 1:36 a.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 2:27 a.m.
        • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
          Art Grater -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 8:19 a.m.
        • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
          Seth -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 3:08 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Albert Steg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 1:39 a.m.
    • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
      Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 2:23 a.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        Bob Koca -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 3:21 a.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        David Rennie -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 3:45 a.m.
        • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice--cheaters will cheat
          Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 4:43 a.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        Albert Steg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 2:10 p.m.
        • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
          Colin Owen -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 2:34 p.m.
          • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
            Albert Steg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 2:42 p.m.
            • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
              Colin Owen -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 1:56 p.m.
        • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
          Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 3:44 p.m.
          • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
            Albert Steg -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 1:20 a.m.
        • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
          Art Grater -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 6:11 p.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        winfox -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 1:43 a.m.
  • I think it's a bit sad really
    Alex Schofield -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 6:51 a.m.
    • I think it's a bit sad really
      Art Grater -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 8:35 a.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    TarHeelFan -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 11:36 a.m.
    • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
      Art Grater -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 5:32 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    TraumaBG -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 12:34 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Bob Koca -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 2:43 p.m.
  • Not a big problem at all IMHO
    Casper Van der Tak -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 3:28 p.m.
  • Don't shoot the messanger!
    Casper Van der Tak -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 4:30 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Rick Janowski -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 4:32 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice. WRONG!!
    Chris Knapp -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 6:09 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    alwoods -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 7:54 p.m.
    • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
      Phil Simborg -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 8:51 p.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        Kevin McDonough -- Thursday, 25 August 2016, at 9:32 p.m.
  • What exactly are you testing?
    Chris Knapp -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 12:27 a.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Michael -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 4:16 p.m.
    • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
      TarHeelFan -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 4:39 p.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        Michael -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 6:54 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Frank Berger -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 7:30 p.m.
    • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
      Neil Robins -- Saturday, 27 August 2016, at 2:44 p.m.
      • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
        Art Grater -- Saturday, 27 August 2016, at 5:21 p.m.
    • DUPLICATED_BACKGAMMON_will be decision
      Jakob Garal -- Tuesday, 30 August 2016, at 10:13 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    Chuck Bower -- Friday, 26 August 2016, at 9:51 p.m.
  • I don't buy it
    Steve Mellen -- Saturday, 27 August 2016, at 8:15 p.m.
  • Backgammon Dice are NEVER precision dice
    svilo -- Sunday, 28 August 2016, at 2:25 p.m.