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Werner von Braun

Posted By: joe freedman
Date: Wednesday, 2 December 2009, at 4:12 p.m.

In Response To: Werner von Braun (mamabear)

Actually, I think Lehrer is a genius. And his song scores VB's ostensibly apolitical posture: "a man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience." See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro VB developed the V-2 through the use of slave labor at the Buchenwald concenteration camp, and knew (or should have known) how it would be deployed. He also enjoyed high status and reward under the Hitler regime, and may have been a member of the SS. (I'm not sure about the latter.) The fact that he peaceably surrendered to the allies, etc. shows only an understandable inclination to save his skin. As Lehrer describes it, he was not picky about employers.

I don't know whether VB was essential to the U.S. moon programs, but there were certainly others involved, and it's not clear that VB was indispensable. But even if he was, I don't know see why that would make him a "hero". Whether he was a believer in the Nazi party is beside the point -- he knowingly served the Nazi cause through the use of slave labor. And, I'm not aware of any evidence that he recognized this was wrong-- he simply jumped at the opportunity to be a part of the U.S. rocket program, especially when the alternative was probably a few years in prison, at best.

Having said that, I would concede that most people in his position probably would have made the same choices. But that does not make him a hero. The ones with the courage to take a moral stand -- those are the heros.

[On the other hand, there's always the possibility: "you too can be a hero; if you can count backwards to zero."]

Messages In This Thread

• Leave PJT alone
  alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 8:01 a.m.
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    Stick -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 8:38 a.m.
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      alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 8:57 a.m.
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        Stick -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 9:09 a.m.
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        misja -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 10:34 a.m.
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          Erik Sørensen -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 10:50 a.m.
    • A factual question
      Timothy Chow -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 3:54 p.m.
      • A factual question
        alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:17 p.m.
        • A factual question
          Timothy Chow -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 10:27 p.m.
          • A factual question
            Alex Lehmann -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:13 a.m.
            • A factual question
              Michael Petch -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 2:59 a.m.
              • A factual question
                Christian Munk-Christensen -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 1:44 p.m.
              • A factual question
                Mislav Radica -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 11:47 p.m.
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      Chiva Tafazzoli -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:46 a.m.
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        Phil Simborg -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 7:18 a.m.
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          misja -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 8:30 a.m.
    • Action required?
      Matt Ryder -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 5:51 a.m.
      • Action required?
        Matt Cohn-Geier -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 10:16 a.m.
        • Action required?
          Erik Sørensen -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 10:27 a.m.
  • Leave PJT alone
    Keene -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 3:31 p.m.
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      Bill Riles -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 3:46 p.m.
  • So you were paid by P65 to provide bots.. PROVE IT !!
    neilkaz -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:11 p.m.
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      ragoon -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:16 p.m.
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      Bill Riles -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:22 p.m.
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      alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:26 p.m.
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        neilkaz -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:32 p.m.
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          alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:40 p.m.
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            neilkaz -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:43 p.m.
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              alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:52 p.m.
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                Bill Riles -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 5:01 p.m.
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                  alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 5:29 p.m.
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                    neilkaz -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 5:40 p.m.
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                    misja -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 5:51 p.m.
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                      alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 6:47 p.m.
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                        Keene -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 9:56 p.m.
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                      alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 6:51 p.m.
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                    jdg -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 6:32 p.m.
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                    Dan Pelton -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 10:36 p.m.
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                      Alex Lehmann -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:14 a.m.
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                        Dan Pelton -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:57 a.m.
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                          Alex Lehmann -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 1:05 a.m.
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                            garyo -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 8:04 a.m.
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                rod -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 6:28 p.m.
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                mtuhtan -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 10:25 p.m.
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            ragoon -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:44 p.m.
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          Frank_N_Stein -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 7:33 p.m.
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          Christian Munk-Christensen -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 8:43 p.m.
  • p65
    garyo -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 4:24 p.m.
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    Frank_N_Stein -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 7:15 p.m.
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      alex lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 7:36 p.m.
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        Frank_N_Stein -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 7:51 p.m.
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          Bill Riles -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 8:47 p.m.
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            Frank_N_Stein -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 10:48 p.m.
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            Alex Lehmann -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 11:27 p.m.
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              Ian Shaw -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:07 a.m.
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                Alex Lehmann -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:51 a.m.
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                  Alfred Mamlet -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 1:05 a.m.
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                      Ray Kershaw -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 10:48 a.m.
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                      Dan Pelton -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 4:15 p.m.
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                        Alex Lehmann -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 5:03 p.m.
                        • Higher ER can produce higher win rate by design
                          Rich Munitz -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 5:21 p.m.
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                          Dan Pelton -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 6:26 p.m.
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                  Rich Munitz -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 1:27 a.m.
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                    Alex Lehmann -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 3:00 a.m.
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                  Frank_N_Stein -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 1:55 a.m.
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              Bill Riles -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:13 a.m.
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              Dan Pelton -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:44 a.m.
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              Frank_N_Stein -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 2:25 a.m.
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    Matt Cohn-Geier -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 9:29 p.m.
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      Bill Riles -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 9:34 p.m.
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    Mislav Radica -- Monday, 30 November 2009, at 11:10 p.m.
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    garyo -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 8:02 a.m.
  • Summary of Lehmann views
    rew -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 9:54 a.m.
    • Ty Rew
      Iancho Hristov -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 12:28 p.m.
    • Summary of Lehmann views
      Frank_N_Stein -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 4:41 p.m.
      • Summary of Lehmann views
        Keene -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 4:57 p.m.
        • Summary of Lehmann views
          Frank_N_Stein -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 6:39 p.m.
          • Summary of Lehmann views
            Frank_N_Stein -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 7:12 p.m.
            • Summary of Lehmann views
              Rich Munitz -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 7:51 p.m.
    • Bot Nick Q and Rather Long 2 Cents
      mamabear -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 5:27 p.m.
      • Werner von Braun
        joe freedman -- Wednesday, 2 December 2009, at 3:50 a.m.
        • Werner von Braun
          mamabear -- Wednesday, 2 December 2009, at 10:21 a.m.
          • Werner von Braun
            joe freedman -- Wednesday, 2 December 2009, at 4:12 p.m.
            • Wernher von Braun
              mamabear -- Wednesday, 2 December 2009, at 5:43 p.m.
              • Wernher von Braun
                joe freedman -- Thursday, 3 December 2009, at 2:40 a.m.
                • Wernher von Braun
                  Bill Riles -- Thursday, 3 December 2009, at 3:24 a.m.
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    sonrik -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 4:40 p.m.
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      Matt Cohn-Geier -- Tuesday, 1 December 2009, at 9:13 p.m.
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    samir -- Wednesday, 2 December 2009, at 2:09 a.m.